Nighthawk Talon Sniper Grey Black
The Talon family adds a few great upgrades to the traditional 1911. This pistol comes standard with Tritium front and rear sights that improve sight acquisition in low light. Additionally, this pistol features top and rear of slide serrations that reduce. As of January 1, 2001, no handgun may be manufactured within California, imported into California for sale, lent, given, kept for sale, or offered/exposed for sale unless that handgun model has passed firing, safety, and drop tests and is certified for sale in California by the Department of Justice. The Talon II is a commander size version of the Talon. Tritium front and rear sights improve sight acquisition in low light. Lightweight aluminum Nighthawk Custom tri-cavity trigger Checkered recoil spring plug. OD green, flat dark earth, sniper gray, tactical gray) + $75: Black Out Option. Blacken Trigger, Barrel, Plug, and Bushing.
I own a talon in that color configuration. I would actually say the GRP is their entry level gun. The talon is more of their flagship model. Or it was before they started doing signature series guns. Anyway, the difference between the two is probably very minor. Probably the sights or a FLGR.
I would personally get the talon.I agree with the grp being the entry level gun and talon being the flagship. Personally I would go the route of the enforcer or a falcon is a great choice as well. But either way no wrong choices when you pick up a new hawk. As erf7 wrote, the GRP is the entry level NHC. Talon and Predator (different barrel) are base NHCs used as starting point for personal customizations.T3, Enforcer and Falcon are 'pre customized' by NHC. They probably added the most wanted features. The Heinies (Lady Hawk, PDP, etc.) arethe result of a collaboration with Richard Heinie.
You can customize them.The Signatures (Heinie, Costa, Bob Marvel) are NHC high end. You cannot change anything (some very little exceptions may apply).This was just a very simple synopsis.IMO, go for Enforcer or Falcon. I think NHC knocked it out of the park with the Falcon. I love that it is unique, but also still a standard model as far as the way it functions.
I also love the Falcon commander (have one on order through George).Birdy, you stated that you can customize the Heinie's, but then stated that you cannot customize the Signature Series. The Heinie models are part of the Signature Series though. I'm still a bit confused about this area and which models can be customized and which cannot.
Also you left out the AAC sweet pistol. Unique and spec'd out pretty awesome if you ask me. In fact I love everything about that model and was about to purchase one used a few months ago, but couldn't see myself ever suppressing it and decided to get a WC CQB that was for sale at the time as well.
Still think NHC did an amazing job with the AAC though. I'd had my Talon II for about 5 years now, before they offered all the different models they have now. I dealt directly with NHC, and it was built exactly the way I wanted it. It took an extra two weeks because they accidentally checkered the rear of the slide, instead of serrating it o match my Straight-8 sights, so they remade the slide. I had them leave off the Talon II roll mark at that point. AFAIC, I couldn't ask for a nicer pistol.Black over Sniper Gray.That's one sweet Hawk you've got there Steve. I've seen it around here before and every time I see it I wish I had one also.
Congrats looks like a keeper to me. No one said the Falcon is their flagship model. I said the Talon is their flagship model because it is kind of the pistol they marketed their brand on for a while. I am not saying it is built any better than a GRP, just comes with more standard features. It's not silly to call the GRP entry level.
That's what it is. That also does not mean it is built to a lesser quality standard than a Talon or any of their other guns.Now that the Falcon came out it is probably even more popular than the Talon, but I would still call the Talon their original flagship model. I just think Nighthawk has started marketing differently now that they got big names on their team like AAC, Bob Marvel, Richard Heinie, and Chris Costa. I still think every one of their pistols are built to the same standard, some just come with more or less features than others and some are pushed for our eyes to see more than others nowadays. No one said the Falcon is their flagship model.
I said the Talon is their flagship model because it is kind of the pistol they marketed their brand on for a while. I am not saying it is built any better than a GRP, just comes with more standard features. It's not silly to call the GRP entry level. That's what it is. That also does not mean it is built to a lesser quality standard than a Talon or any of their other guns.Now that the Falcon came out it is probably even more popular than the Talon, but I would still call the Talon their original flagship model. I just think Nighthawk has started marketing differently now that they got big names on their team like AAC, Bob Marvel, Richard Heinie, and Chris Costa.
I still think every one of their pistols are built to the same standard, some just come with more or less features than others and some are pushed for our eyes to see more than others nowadays.Totally agree.
Talon Range report March 31st:Well I picked up my talon today after 10 days of Kalifonistan cool off torture. As soon as work was over I raced to the range for the 500 round recommended break in. I was going to try and accomplish this all in one session!Equipment: 500 rounds of hand loaded 45ACP, Bear Creek 200gr moly coated RNFP over 4.2gr Clays, Winchester Large primers, and mixed range brass. All loaded on my Dillon 550B with a Lee FCD in the final stage. I gauge check all of these to be sure and all were in spec. Mags used were: NovakACT (2 provided with pistol), Wilson 47D’s, CMC 8 round power mags, and one CMC 10 round.Fit and finish: When I picked up the pistol I inspected it for fit and finish.
What a beautiful pistol it is. The checkering on the front strap and mainspring housing is cut to 25lpi and provides a solid grip without being too sharp. The beavertail is also great, the wide tail is more comfortable than my STI and it fits snug in the web of my strong hand and there is no play. The slide to frame fit also has no play in any direction.
When racking the slide the action was quite tight and while smooth it needed some shooting to finish the smoothing out. The serrations on the top of the slide at 20lpi also look great and run from the front sight to the rear. The checkering on the rear of the slide is hand cut and supposed to be for glare reduction. I will have to shoot it out side to see if there is a benefit but it looks cool. The magwell is hand blended to the frame and you can tell.
I have been waiting to have a pistol with this feature and it is great. The thumb safety is also hand contoured; you can tell what ever safety they started with has been filed and smoothed down to a medium size.
The best part is the trigger, man is it crisp! There is very little take up and over travel. It breaks like a glass rod, while I don’t have a scale it feels like 3.5lbs or so. I am initially impressed with the permakote finish it looks stealthy; this gun will see a lot of use so we’ll see how it holds up. The dehorning is also top notch. There is not a sharp edge anywhere but it’s short of a full melt.Performance: In a sentencethis pistol can shoot (see test target)!
It shoots measurably better than I can for now (I am working on it constantly however). Nighthawk guarantees 1inch at 25yrds and I believe it can do that easily. I did end up shooting all 500 rounds in 2.5 hours.
During that time I did not have a single failure to feed or extract, I had no jams of any kind. It ran well with all mags tested; I was not as impressed with the Novak mags however, I did have a couple of failures to lock back after the last round. I added more lube as it was getting dirty and that issue seemed to go away.
It loves the Wilson and CMC mags and I plan to buy more Wilsons. This gun can group and the pictures below show that to some degree. I did get pretty tired firing that many rounds and my accuracy suffered.
I will shoot at IPDA tomorrow and will report back.Summary: This is one sweet blaster, I don’t have anything bad to say about it and the Nighthawk guys were a pleasure to work with they quoted 6-8 weeks to get the pistol done and it only took them 4! This will be my primary pistol for IDPA and USPSA single stack. I look forward to some seriously fun shooting with my Talon.
By the way this was my 30th birthday present from my parents living in upstate NY. I don’t think I’ll be able to thank them enough!Pics:http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/SDlocal/Talon/Hawk.jpghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/SDlocal/Talon/testtarget.jpghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/SDlocal/Talon/Talon3.jpghttp://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/SDlocal/Talon/Talon4.jpg. THANKS FOR THE POST!!! REALLY!!And an EXCELLENT post at that!The first time I saw and held one, I could tell they were really something special. Fit and finish of every model I have looked at was excellent (at Martin B. Rettings in Culver City).
I have a Les Baer Premiere and a Thunder Ranch, as well as a few tuned 70 Series Colt NM Gold Cups, Detonics Scoremaster and Janus Scoremaster, and more, but these appear to be a leap above all of them.I was looking at the Ed Brown guns and then these suddenly appeared in Retting's display case one day with little fanfare. Without having ever heard of the company, one look at them, without ANY urging by ANY salesman, I could tell these were EXTREMELY well built. Rumor has it, even with that accuracy, you can literally remove the barrel bushing with just your fingers; no wrench. Is that true? Did disassemble for cleaning yet to inspect other wear areas? Just curious.I haven't really been debating buying one: I ABSOLUTELY KNOW I will be buying one (maybe 2 before the year is over) and your post was VERY helpful, VERY convincing.Now, which one? Talon or Predator?
And of the 2, which one should I get? That cone-type barrel on the Predator is very slick, very different from any of my other 1911's, the main reason I might get that one, just for variety - and if I do get two, then the 2nd will be a Talon, if I get the Predator first.Hmmmm. So many good choices.Thanks, and again, GREAT POST!! Cali,Thanks for the compliments! It really is a great pistol, and yes I have detail stripped once for cleaning (I like taking things apart). Anyway yes the bushing can be removed with you fingers. It is not baer tight.
The internal wear areas seem to be breaking in quite well. No excessive wear on the locking lugs or barrel just some polishing up on the frame rails and that is it.As to which to get.I got the Talon for IDPA use the Predator would not be allowed. The Predator sure looks sweet though. If you were going to get two I would go Talon then Predator. Congrats on your Nighthawk Talon. I bought a Talon back in December and it came with 2 Nighthawk Custom Magazines, which were made in Italy.
In my Nighthawk Custom bag was a coupon for an additional 6 magazines for $99.00thru Nighthawk Customs, it is there way of saying thanks. Not sure why your Talon didn't come with these magazines. The quality and finish of these mags is superb, and they function flawlessly, that is why Nighthawk is using them on their guns. When I called to purchase the 6 magazines for my new GRP Recon, and they sent me 4 1911 Recoil Springs #17 pound, free of charge. Nighthawk products speak for themselves, and there service is awesome.
You might want to call them and ask why your Talon didn't come with them. Did they send you a coupon for additional mags? If so, Buy them, they're sweet and are meant to be used with Nighthawk Customs! You mean Wilson's MSRP? Yup, I'm sure it says $2100.
That's the Making Suckers Really Pay price (and yes, I just made that up, LOL). Sporting Arms in Texas sells the CA-certified model for under $1,700. I also bought my Baer TRS from them, and paid a bit under MSRP. For the list price of a CQB, I can have a CQB (1650 plus fees), refinished however I want, with top-strap serrations like your Talon, a blended S&A magwell, and money for ammo.Hopefully I'll get to handle a Nighthawk sometime. Are they sourcing parts from Wilson or someone else, or making their own?.and when I realized that, I stopped buying guns here in CA;)I'm not trying to start a debate, I'm genuinely curious.
High end 1911's are my game, and I'm always looking for my next one. The CQB and Thunder Ranch are my benchmark guns - Features and cost are the two factors I use to compare them to other guns, especially guns like Nighthawks that I've never even seen in person before. Once you get to that level, they're all handfit, with no MIM parts, and excellent accuracy. It's tough to determine what's best for a particular person (me, in this case) when they're all built to such high standards.I know a few local shops that always stock an Ed Brown or two, a few Wilsons, and a few Baers. None of them stock Nighthawk.
Knowing the excellent rep that Nighthawk has earned in their short time in business, I don't understand why local shops haven't at least ordered a couple to keep in stock. A real 1911 is most certainly CA-compiant. Springfield Professional, all the Wilson models, all the Les Baer models, all the Ed Brown, Nighthawk models. None of them have internal locks, none of them have firing pin safeties. They are true 'series 70 guns'.Springfield has never put a firing pin safety in any of their guns either, although they do come (with the exception of Custom Shop models) with the ILS.Just look at the DOJ list, it is very clear what is legal and what is not.Right, but that's what I mean: all 1911s for sale in CA have SOME SORT of safety that was NOT there when JMB designed the gun.Springfield has their ILS, Colt has the Ser. 80 system, etc. Etc.For the third time, my question is: what sort of device do these Nighthawks (and other pistols like Baer, Brown, etc.) have in order to make them CA-compliant?Further, Springfield guns with the ILS are technically not 'series 70' guns, since they have the ILS.
No, I mean HOW is it CA-compliant; a real 1911 is not CA compliant; it has to have some BS safety like the Springfield ILS, the Colt Series 80 FP safety, etc.So my question is; what sort of internal 'safety' mechanism do these guns have to pass the CA compliance tests?There are lots of 1911's without firing pin blocks that are CA approved. The ILS is not a California requirement and had nothing to do with the approval of the Springfields. It just is approved as a locking device and you don't need to buy another lock.No Firing Pin blocks in Wilsons, Baers, Nighthawks, BarSto, Springfields, Browns and others and they are all approved 1911's.Further, Springfield guns with the ILS are technically not 'series 70' guns, since they have the ILS.Then there are NO Series 70 guns made today since no 1911's of today use a collet bushing. There are lots of 1911's without firing pin blocks that are CA approved. The ILS is not a California requirement and had nothing to do with the approval of the Springfields. It just is approved as a locking device and you don't need to buy another lock.No Firing Pin blocks in Wilsons, Baers, Nighthawks, BarSto, Springfields, Browns and others and they are all approved 1911's.Then how the heck do they pass the drop-safety test?If Wilsons, Baers, etc. Are CA-legal, why isn't the Colt Series 70 repro?Then there are NO Series 70 guns made today since no 1911's of today use a collet bushing.I know.
Series 70 is often used to describe guns that are 'true' 1911s in that they do not have any firing pin safeties, ILS systems, etc. The Wilson CQB USED to have MIM parts, years ago. I believe in 2003 they eliminated MIM parts. Don't believe me? Simply call up Wilson Combat and ask them. Les Baer doesn't even use cast parts. Don't believe me?
Call Les and ask him.Dr. Jones, what are you not understanding? The 1911's I mentioned have no added safeties of ANY kind.
They have a manual safety and the grip safety (beavertail), and that's it! A firing pin block is not necessary to pass the drop test. Furthermore, please re-read my previous post.
I said the Springfield Professional model has nothing added, and stated that the production SA pistols do have the ILS but no firing pin safety like the Schwartz safety on MIMbers or Colt's Series 80 ridiculousness.My Les Baer Thunder Ranch is identical in every way, shape, and form to the blued, base Thunder Ranch available everywhere else in the United States. Nothing has been added or modified.So, again, let me just try and clear this up for you. Neither a firing pin safety nor an internal lock is required for a 1911 to be CA-compliant. It never has been. Now, I cannot explain why some high end 1911 makers make specific CA models (like the Wilson CQB and the Ed Brown guns) when they could submit any of their regular ol' 1911's for testing. Les Baer simply submits the same guns that he sells everywhere else.
Brown and Wilson make special CA models with special model numbers, which tend to cost more money. As far as my understanding goes. This is NOT necessary (again, see Baer for example).The Colt Series 70 Repro isn't available here because Colt probably never submitted it for testing. Then how the heck do they pass the drop-safety test?Some use titanium firing pins (like Springfield). Many of the semi custom guns use a 38 super firing pin in the 45 with an extra strength FP spring.
This is enough to keep the inertia of the pin low enough so it doesn't dent the primer.If Colt were to submit the 70 retros and put a light FP in, they might pass also. Lots of companies don't want to keep submitting 3 guns and $5K per gun for tests so they only submit what they think will be the big sellers. Ah, I forgot about the different firing pins. I knew that several guns (Brown and Wilson come to mind) list their CA-compliant models as having titanium firing pins, now I know why.As for Wilson and CQB, I know it wasn't last year. It was '02 or '03. Wilson says that they never had problems with the MIM, but customers didn't want MIM parts in their guns, so they did away with it. However, the KZ45 has an MIM hammer and sear per their website.
I plan on buying a new KZ45 next month. I plan to break in the gun and then send it to CCR for an OD green finish on the slide. I'll probably have him install a new tool steel hammer and sear at the same time.It looks like my accountant got me back more money from Uncle Sam than I expected. I may have to snoop around and see if anyone's selling the Talon under MSRP (or at least at MSRP but out of state, so no tax!).
Although for the same price I can get a Kobra Carry, which has been a 'dream gun' of mine for awhile! What didn't you like about them?From what I've seen so far, they're moving up on my list of next pistol to get.They remind me too much of Kimbers. For the price they are asking for one of their 1911's, I would rather have anything from Springfield Custom. My experiences with Baer, Wilson, and Ed Brown have all been bad and I don't care for any of their pistols as well. Although I have one Baer SRP that I got in 1995 that is just as good as my pro.
This is my opinion and it in no way meant to offend anyone else that likes Nighthawk or any other 1911's. They remind me too much of Kimbers.
Nighthawk Talon Sniper Grey Black Women
For the price they are asking for one of their 1911's, I would rather have anything from Springfield Custom. My experiences with Baer, Wilson, and Ed Brown have all been bad and I don't care for any of their pistols as well.
Although I have one Baer SRP that I got in 1995 that is just as good as my pro. This is my opinion and it in no way meant to offend anyone else that likes Nighthawk or any other 1911's.would you mind sharing your bad experience with Baer and Wilson 1911 pistols? I'd like to know.Thx. Would you mind sharing your bad experience with Baer and Wilson 1911 pistols? I'd like to know.ThxBoth Baer and Wilson treated me like it was a privilege to own their 1911's. My CQB had a constant failure to feed/stovepipe problem and it was sent back 3 times and it was never corrected. I have had numerous people fire it to determine if it was operator error (I know how to shoot; I'm not a 'mall ninja' or 'gunshop commando.'
I finally sold it to a friend who wanted to take the tsk to getting it fixed. Never knew what happened afterwards.As for Baer, it was the utter disrespect that they have for their customers; I had a TRS special when they were first released and this time, the fitting was not done correctly and I kept getting metal shavings from the slide and it would not go into battery each time. Baer's are known to be tight, but this one was too tight. I called them and told them what was happening and they told me that 'none of our guns can do that.
We build the finest 1911's in the world and that could never happen on our guns.' They they proceeded to tell me that they would not accept my warranty return because most likely that a 3rd party gunsmith messed up their work of art. I ordered the pistol direct from them and had it sent to my FFL dealer. I will never again be a patron of Les Baer Custom.As for Ed Brown, same treatment. My Kobra carry arrived scratched on the stainless slide and he would not even accept it to have it fixed. They stated that 'it is not our problem; does the pistol function reliably?'
$2400 for that POS and it arrived with a scratch that was deep like someone gouged it with a punch.Never had a problem with Springfield Custom. Dec the custom shop manager is great and I have spoken countless times with Jason Chambless (APG) on having a TGO-1 made with my custom additions. My TRP Professional has been the most accurate and reliable 1911 I have ever owned.
Their customer service is impeccable; they even pay for the next day shipping to them and back! Gun test magazine just recently did a comparison with the Nighthawk GRP, Wilson CQB, and Rock River Pro Carry.The conclusion was that hands down the Wilson CQB won.Theire reasoning was that the RR didn't have a sturdy finish, and it only came with one magazine, and that there was a glare on the right rear edge of the rear sight, but it was a will built gun, and was a conditional buy.The GRP hands down had the toughest finish, nd could not be marred, but you have to pay $50 dollars extra if you don't want the front slide serrations. They also deemed that the rear sights, made it hard to get on target. They whined how the finish on the magazines were just blued, and not the same finish of the gun. There test pistol had to much creep in the trigger. Out of the three test guns, the nighthawk was the only one that needed sight adjustment, and the gun was not dehorned at all.
The edge of the slide stop had a sharp conrner that was painful, and the edges cut their thumbs. It was accurate, they just expected more detail for such a pricey pistol.The CQB was deemed close to 'perfect'. The CQB felt the best in their hand, and had the best sight acquisition. The armor tuff finish was adequate. The night sights yellow and green combination blew the pants off of the all green from te other two. It was properly dehorned, and had no sharp edges.
The finish was the slickest in the holster draw comparison(unlike the nighthawks which stuck profusely). The CQB beat the other two guns with the speed, and accuracy drill.Their recommendation was to buuy the CQB for the money.This is just an excerpt, and not the opinion of the poster.
I have two Baers (TRS and Super Tac) and two Wilsons (CQB and Protector), and all have been great from the start, even with cheap ammo (Blazer and WWB). I've had a couple of questions for both manufacterers, and both have responded quickly, with no attitude.I bought a Ed Brown Special Forces right after they came out on the list and had some issues with it's reliability (only worked well with the Brown supplied mag, not so with Wilson or Baers), the beavertail fit was spotty, but my main complaint was the trigger.
Although it was good weight wise (3 1/2 to 4 pounds), it had plenty of creep. I e-mail Brown, they said send it back (on my dime of course, actually $62), and they would look at it.
I did and to their credit, had it back in five days. The work order said 'rework trigger', but it was no different than when I sent it in.
I sent another e-mail back to Brown complaining that the trigger still didn't meet the advertised 'crisp 3 1/2 to 4 pounds', and got a response back from Ed Brown himself. Said he personally checked the gun when it came back and it did have some creep. It was re-worked, and he checked it before it went out and found it acceptable. He didn't offer to redo it, end of story. I thought it was a bit arrogant, especially since the trigger was nowhere near as good as any of the Baers/Wilsons, or the Colt I had worked over by a local smith 10 years earlier. I was ticked that a $2100 gun had such a poor trigger, and the fact the ED Brown himself thought it acceptable, that rather than have someone else correct the problem, I sold the gun.
I really wanted to like that gun because I thought it looked very cool and felt good in the hand. But I can honestly say that the fitting and workmanship was nowhere near any of my Baers or Wilsons. In his defense, Brown did send me a coffee cup though.
I don't use it because I'm afraid to break my $62 Brown cup.